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	<title>Comments on: Are Paul&#8217;s writings Torah or Talmud?</title>
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	<description>A personal walk in a wilderness of words</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great quote (which I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve read before) from Lewis.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hopefully that doesn’t lend itself to a version of “I know art when I see it…” with respect to coming closer to the word of God.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
:D  By no means.  What I mean is that the Bible is written by different authors because of their individual takes on the truths God revealed them, and this explains the stylistic and thematic distinctiveness of the different portions of Scripture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great quote (which I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve read before) from Lewis.</p>
<blockquote><p>Hopefully that doesn’t lend itself to a version of “I know art when I see it…” with respect to coming closer to the word of God.</p></blockquote>
<p> <img src='http://heissufficient.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />   By no means.  What I mean is that the Bible is written by different authors because of their individual takes on the truths God revealed them, and this explains the stylistic and thematic distinctiveness of the different portions of Scripture.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The onion vs. hologram question is quite interesting. Allow me to contribute the art gallery view, in which the Bible contains pictures of various sorts: paintings on canvas, molded sculptures, photographs of varying quality of different subjects, each seen through the lens of its artist. This is closer to my view.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hopefully that doesn&#039;t lend itself to a version of &quot;I know art when I see it...&quot; with respect to coming closer to the word of God. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>The onion vs. hologram question is quite interesting. Allow me to contribute the art gallery view, in which the Bible contains pictures of various sorts: paintings on canvas, molded sculptures, photographs of varying quality of different subjects, each seen through the lens of its artist. This is closer to my view.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hopefully that doesn&#8217;t lend itself to a version of &#8220;I know art when I see it&#8230;&#8221; with respect to coming closer to the word of God. <img src='http://heissufficient.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, speaking of Mr. Lewis... I just discovered this quote that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=353&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Peter had posted on his site&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;It is Christ Himself, not the Bible, which is the true word of God. The Bible, read in the right spirit and with the guidance of good teachers will bring us to him. When it becomes really necessary (i.e. for our spiritual life, not for curiosity or controversy) to know whether a particular passage is rightly translated or is Myth (but of course Myth specially chosen by God from among countless Myths to carry a spiritual truth) or history, we shall no doubt be guided to the right answer. But we must not use the Bible (our fathers too often did) as a sort of Encyclopedia out of which texts (isolated from their context and read without attention to the whole nature and purport of the books in which they occur) can be taken for use as weapons.

From The Collected Letters of C.S. Lewis: Volume III, p.246.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Looking forward to the rest of your new series!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, speaking of Mr. Lewis&#8230; I just discovered this quote that <a  href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=353" rel="nofollow">Peter had posted on his site</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>It is Christ Himself, not the Bible, which is the true word of God. The Bible, read in the right spirit and with the guidance of good teachers will bring us to him. When it becomes really necessary (i.e. for our spiritual life, not for curiosity or controversy) to know whether a particular passage is rightly translated or is Myth (but of course Myth specially chosen by God from among countless Myths to carry a spiritual truth) or history, we shall no doubt be guided to the right answer. But we must not use the Bible (our fathers too often did) as a sort of Encyclopedia out of which texts (isolated from their context and read without attention to the whole nature and purport of the books in which they occur) can be taken for use as weapons.</p>
<p>From The Collected Letters of C.S. Lewis: Volume III, p.246.</p></blockquote>
<p>Looking forward to the rest of your new series!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-632</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I do have some things in common with Neo-Orthodoxy, but my view is probably closer to that of C.S. Lewis.  Not trying to be coy, but my blog series is going to detail my thoughts on inerrancy.  I&#039;m for it and against it.  I guess you could say that I view the Chicago statement on inerrancy to be notably errant ;)

The onion vs. hologram question is quite interesting.  Allow me to contribute the art gallery view, in which the Bible contains pictures of various sorts: paintings on canvas, molded sculptures, photographs of varying quality of different subjects, each seen through the lens of its artist.  This is closer to my view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do have some things in common with Neo-Orthodoxy, but my view is probably closer to that of C.S. Lewis.  Not trying to be coy, but my blog series is going to detail my thoughts on inerrancy.  I&#8217;m for it and against it.  I guess you could say that I view the Chicago statement on inerrancy to be notably errant <img src='http://heissufficient.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The onion vs. hologram question is quite interesting.  Allow me to contribute the art gallery view, in which the Bible contains pictures of various sorts: paintings on canvas, molded sculptures, photographs of varying quality of different subjects, each seen through the lens of its artist.  This is closer to my view.</p>
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		<title>By: tcgreek</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-649</link>
		<dc:creator>tcgreek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>El shaddai,

Regarding the &quot;third heaven&quot; there are two leading ideas: 1. Some think that Paul was caught to some level of heaven but not the hightest heavens (because there are 7 heavens); and 2. there are three levels and Paul was caught up to the hightest heavens.

The latter is what I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>El shaddai,</p>
<p>Regarding the &#8220;third heaven&#8221; there are two leading ideas: 1. Some think that Paul was caught to some level of heaven but not the hightest heavens (because there are 7 heavens); and 2. there are three levels and Paul was caught up to the hightest heavens.</p>
<p>The latter is what I believe.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Steve: I think, for now, that we&#039;re of a common mind in that the NT texts, probably with equal authority as &lt;a href=&quot;/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-1114&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Peter originally noted&lt;/a&gt;, provide insight into the eternal truth of Christ&#039;s message, which is separate and unstained by human interpretation. The question is whether the NT texts, as we have them, are the inerrant revelation of God or the errant works of men, based on inerrant Truth. Barth, whom you&#039;ve been &lt;a href=&quot;/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-1149&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;subtly linked to&lt;/a&gt;, argued the latter, yes?

I had &lt;a href=&quot;/2007/10/12/is-the-bible-an-onion-or-a-hologram/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;written earlier&lt;/a&gt; about whether the Bible could be considered an onion or a hologram. In the former model, a core Truth has been layered over with centuries of interpretation, divine or human, but is still capable of being revealed if we peel back those layers. In the latter, the whole of the Truth is reflected in every part of the canon without the need to discard layers of interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve: I think, for now, that we&#8217;re of a common mind in that the NT texts, probably with equal authority as <a  href="/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-1114" rel="nofollow">Peter originally noted</a>, provide insight into the eternal truth of Christ&#8217;s message, which is separate and unstained by human interpretation. The question is whether the NT texts, as we have them, are the inerrant revelation of God or the errant works of men, based on inerrant Truth. Barth, whom you&#8217;ve been <a  href="/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-1149" rel="nofollow">subtly linked to</a>, argued the latter, yes?</p>
<p>I had <a  href="/2007/10/12/is-the-bible-an-onion-or-a-hologram/" rel="nofollow">written earlier</a> about whether the Bible could be considered an onion or a hologram. In the former model, a core Truth has been layered over with centuries of interpretation, divine or human, but is still capable of being revealed if we peel back those layers. In the latter, the whole of the Truth is reflected in every part of the canon without the need to discard layers of interpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-647</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 10:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@tcgreek: yes, I&#039;m sure that Paul was deliberate in the language he chose to use about his revelation. However, the phrase &quot;third heaven&quot; just sticks out like a sore thumb in a NT that rarely discusses the order of the heavenly realm. I was just curious whether that language was connected to any other contemporary Jewish or Greek idea of heaven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tcgreek: yes, I&#8217;m sure that Paul was deliberate in the language he chose to use about his revelation. However, the phrase &#8220;third heaven&#8221; just sticks out like a sore thumb in a NT that rarely discusses the order of the heavenly realm. I was just curious whether that language was connected to any other contemporary Jewish or Greek idea of heaven.</p>
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		<title>By: Geocreationist</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-646</link>
		<dc:creator>Geocreationist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 07:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As I have have studied Paul&#039;s writings, I found that the builds up his arguments based on concepts that almost universally go back to Jesus and/or to Moses.  For example, the idea that &quot;only one can win the race, but run so as to win&quot; is an echo of the manna in the desert, where no one gathered the right amount, but everyone who brought their&#039;s to the priest found it measured exactly right.  There are so many other distinctly Pauline concepts that were writtin by Moses first, that where Paul does introduce new doctrine (such as spiritual gifts, and practicing them in turn; loving your wife as Christ loves the church), I have no trouble accepting them as such</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I have have studied Paul&#8217;s writings, I found that the builds up his arguments based on concepts that almost universally go back to Jesus and/or to Moses.  For example, the idea that &#8220;only one can win the race, but run so as to win&#8221; is an echo of the manna in the desert, where no one gathered the right amount, but everyone who brought their&#8217;s to the priest found it measured exactly right.  There are so many other distinctly Pauline concepts that were writtin by Moses first, that where Paul does introduce new doctrine (such as spiritual gifts, and practicing them in turn; loving your wife as Christ loves the church), I have no trouble accepting them as such</p>
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		<title>By: tcgreek</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-645</link>
		<dc:creator>tcgreek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>El Shaddai wrote:

&quot;Sorry about another tangent on my own blog, but has anyone done a useful study on Paul’s comments about being “caught up as far as the third heaven” (2 Cor 12:2)?&quot;

Paul would have revealed what he was allowed to reveal.  To venture beyond what Paul revealed is only speculative.  I&#039;m sure you would agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>El Shaddai wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Sorry about another tangent on my own blog, but has anyone done a useful study on Paul’s comments about being “caught up as far as the third heaven” (2 Cor 12:2)?&#8221;</p>
<p>Paul would have revealed what he was allowed to reveal.  To venture beyond what Paul revealed is only speculative.  I&#8217;m sure you would agree.</p>
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		<title>By: tcgreek</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/05/are-pauls-writings-torah-or-talmud/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>tcgreek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve said:

&quot;Scripture is useful for all the things Paul said it was (2 Tim. 3:15-17). We should not make anything too small (minimize); however, we should make every effort to view it at its actual size.&quot;

While not accusing you of Barthian theology, all of Scripture points to the Word, yes.  But we must keep such a view of Scripture that none is actually minimize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Scripture is useful for all the things Paul said it was (2 Tim. 3:15-17). We should not make anything too small (minimize); however, we should make every effort to view it at its actual size.&#8221;</p>
<p>While not accusing you of Barthian theology, all of Scripture points to the Word, yes.  But we must keep such a view of Scripture that none is actually minimize.</p>
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