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	<title>Comments on: Marriage, Children and the Reign of Christ</title>
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	<description>Searching for wit and wisdom in a wilderness of words...</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/comment-page-1/#comment-664</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 03:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sin definitely still exists, but is powerless over the Spirit-led Christian who serves &quot;in newness of the Spirit&quot;.  Glad to clarify this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sin definitely still exists, but is powerless over the Spirit-led Christian who serves &#8220;in newness of the Spirit&#8221;.  Glad to clarify this!</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/comment-page-1/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/#comment-668</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Does this answer your questions?&lt;/i&gt;

I think so, thank you for the thoughtful response. However, I just want to clarify if you&#039;re saying that sin exists in the Christian&#039;s life, but ultimately has no power, or that sin no longer exists once we are in Christ, e.g. we are incapable of sinning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Does this answer your questions?</i></p>
<p>I think so, thank you for the thoughtful response. However, I just want to clarify if you&#8217;re saying that sin exists in the Christian&#8217;s life, but ultimately has no power, or that sin no longer exists once we are in Christ, e.g. we are incapable of sinning.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/comment-page-1/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/#comment-665</guid>
		<description>Let me quote Romans 7:4-11.  It is really a tragedy of biblical exegesis that Christians have not construed this passage and its terminology with 1 Cor 15.

&lt;blockquote&gt;4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOT COVET.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Law was a hard task-master because it gave recognition of sin without supplying the ability to obey by it.  The giving of the Spirit was the answer to all this!  Paul and the Christians in era in which the Old was passing away were given the firstfruits of the Spirit (Ro 8:23), but still looked forward to the time in which the Law and its adherents who were persecuting them would be removed and their faith vindicated.

The &quot;Death&quot; referred to in 1 Cor is the same thing Adam received, namely separation from God (not physical expiration).  This continues as the result of sin, which also continues, but is removed from the equation for the believer.  This separation from God kept the Old Covenant believers from communion with God; that&#039;s why they languished in Sheol until Christ&#039;s perfect sacrifice was put into effect with the Resurrection of the Dead.

Does this answer your questions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me quote Romans 7:4-11.  It is really a tragedy of biblical exegesis that Christians have not construed this passage and its terminology with 1 Cor 15.</p>
<blockquote><p>4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.<br />
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOT COVET.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.</p></blockquote>
<p>The Law was a hard task-master because it gave recognition of sin without supplying the ability to obey by it.  The giving of the Spirit was the answer to all this!  Paul and the Christians in era in which the Old was passing away were given the firstfruits of the Spirit (Ro 8:23), but still looked forward to the time in which the Law and its adherents who were persecuting them would be removed and their faith vindicated.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Death&#8221; referred to in 1 Cor is the same thing Adam received, namely separation from God (not physical expiration).  This continues as the result of sin, which also continues, but is removed from the equation for the believer.  This separation from God kept the Old Covenant believers from communion with God; that&#8217;s why they languished in Sheol until Christ&#8217;s perfect sacrifice was put into effect with the Resurrection of the Dead.</p>
<p>Does this answer your questions?</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/comment-page-1/#comment-667</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/#comment-667</guid>
		<description>Ha! I suspected you&#039;d be the first to weigh in... please don&#039;t think I don&#039;t find the argument compelling - I&#039;m just still in the process of examining my amillennialism against full preterism. Sometimes I have to be hit over the head seven different ways before a new idea sinks in (much to chagrin of my wife!)...

I do have a couple of questions for you now:

[1] What is not clear to me in your syllogism is &quot;what is Death?&quot; I read it as, if the Law is no longer in effect, then sin is powerless and therefore death has no sting. Sin and death still exist, but their power has been neutralized or even neutered.

And [2], if the Law is no longer in effect, then what is the post-Law definition of sin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! I suspected you&#8217;d be the first to weigh in&#8230; please don&#8217;t think I don&#8217;t find the argument compelling &#8211; I&#8217;m just still in the process of examining my amillennialism against full preterism. Sometimes I have to be hit over the head seven different ways before a new idea sinks in (much to chagrin of my wife!)&#8230;</p>
<p>I do have a couple of questions for you now:</p>
<p>[1] What is not clear to me in your syllogism is &#8220;what is Death?&#8221; I read it as, if the Law is no longer in effect, then sin is powerless and therefore death has no sting. Sin and death still exist, but their power has been neutralized or even neutered.</p>
<p>And [2], if the Law is no longer in effect, then what is the post-Law definition of sin?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/comment-page-1/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/2008/01/09/marriage-children-and-the-reign-of-christ/#comment-666</guid>
		<description>As I&#039;m sure you expected, I have a few thoughts on this :)

First, remember that the point of levirate marriage was not to gain a spouse but to produce &lt;em&gt;children&lt;/em&gt; -- &quot;marriage&quot; itself could hardly have been the brunt of their discussion, so what we seem to have here is modest, oblique discussion of family-making, which as the Roman Catholics rightly point out, is the purpose of all marriage.  In order to understand Jesus&#039; answer to the Sadducees, you have to understand the purpose of levirate marriage within the context of the Covenant as Jesus and the Sadducees did.  The Covenant&#039;s purpose for levirate marriage was to perpetuate the race of Israelites: marriage and childbearing were integral to the continuation of ethnic Israel; Jesus&#039; shocking revelation to the Sadducees was that the coming Kingdom of God in &quot;the next age&quot; was not under an Israel-centric Torah that mandated levirate marriage.  Jesus&#039; response corrected the Jewish leaders&#039; misconception about the next age, in which the children of the promise were &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; natural children.  A Christian is not born naturally: a child born to Christian parents is not born a Christian.  Like the angels, our spirits do not &quot;marry&quot; and produce offspring.

Now as far as your discussion of the defeat of Death:
&lt;blockquote&gt;And when this which is corruptible clothes itself with incorruptibility and this which is mortal clothes itself with immortality, then the word that is written shall come about: &quot;Death is swallowed up in victory.  Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?&quot;  The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.  But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is implied here that sin would not function without power; its power was to be vanquished with the abolition of the Law.  This passage yields the following syllogism:

1) Sin&#039;s ability to kill (&quot;the sting of death is sin&quot;) would be removed at the time of the Resurrection (&quot;Death is swallowed up&quot;).
2) The Law was what empowered sin to kill (&quot;the power of sin is the Law&quot;).
3) The Law is no longer in effect.
4) Therefore, the removal of sin&#039;s ability to kill, the swallowing up of Death in victory, and the Resurrection of 1 Cor. 15 have passed.

How can it be said that Death as defined by Paul has not been conquered?  This is an airtight syllogism, provided that we agree that number 3 is correct.  The definition of &quot;sin&quot; as &quot;transgression against the Law&quot; instead of simply &quot;any wicked act&quot; is made explicit in Romans 6-7.

Verse 57 implies with its present tense (lit., &quot;is giving us the victory&quot;) that victory was already somewhat realized in Paul&#039;s day.  It would be fully realized when the Resurrection occurred and Death was &quot;swallowed up&quot;, which would result in the defeat of Death and the elimination of its sting.

The question has to be asked: does the Law, the sting of Death, remain in effect today?  If not, it is a sign that the reign of Death, the last enemy, has been destroyed.

Of course, you&#039;ve read all this before, and so it must somehow not have been compelling to you.  But maybe it will be for someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;m sure you expected, I have a few thoughts on this <img src='http://heissufficient.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>First, remember that the point of levirate marriage was not to gain a spouse but to produce <em>children</em> &#8212; &#8220;marriage&#8221; itself could hardly have been the brunt of their discussion, so what we seem to have here is modest, oblique discussion of family-making, which as the Roman Catholics rightly point out, is the purpose of all marriage.  In order to understand Jesus&#8217; answer to the Sadducees, you have to understand the purpose of levirate marriage within the context of the Covenant as Jesus and the Sadducees did.  The Covenant&#8217;s purpose for levirate marriage was to perpetuate the race of Israelites: marriage and childbearing were integral to the continuation of ethnic Israel; Jesus&#8217; shocking revelation to the Sadducees was that the coming Kingdom of God in &#8220;the next age&#8221; was not under an Israel-centric Torah that mandated levirate marriage.  Jesus&#8217; response corrected the Jewish leaders&#8217; misconception about the next age, in which the children of the promise were <em>not</em> natural children.  A Christian is not born naturally: a child born to Christian parents is not born a Christian.  Like the angels, our spirits do not &#8220;marry&#8221; and produce offspring.</p>
<p>Now as far as your discussion of the defeat of Death:</p>
<blockquote><p>And when this which is corruptible clothes itself with incorruptibility and this which is mortal clothes itself with immortality, then the word that is written shall come about: &#8220;Death is swallowed up in victory.  Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?&#8221;  The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.  But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is implied here that sin would not function without power; its power was to be vanquished with the abolition of the Law.  This passage yields the following syllogism:</p>
<p>1) Sin&#8217;s ability to kill (&#8220;the sting of death is sin&#8221;) would be removed at the time of the Resurrection (&#8220;Death is swallowed up&#8221;).<br />
2) The Law was what empowered sin to kill (&#8220;the power of sin is the Law&#8221;).<br />
3) The Law is no longer in effect.<br />
4) Therefore, the removal of sin&#8217;s ability to kill, the swallowing up of Death in victory, and the Resurrection of 1 Cor. 15 have passed.</p>
<p>How can it be said that Death as defined by Paul has not been conquered?  This is an airtight syllogism, provided that we agree that number 3 is correct.  The definition of &#8220;sin&#8221; as &#8220;transgression against the Law&#8221; instead of simply &#8220;any wicked act&#8221; is made explicit in Romans 6-7.</p>
<p>Verse 57 implies with its present tense (lit., &#8220;is giving us the victory&#8221;) that victory was already somewhat realized in Paul&#8217;s day.  It would be fully realized when the Resurrection occurred and Death was &#8220;swallowed up&#8221;, which would result in the defeat of Death and the elimination of its sting.</p>
<p>The question has to be asked: does the Law, the sting of Death, remain in effect today?  If not, it is a sign that the reign of Death, the last enemy, has been destroyed.</p>
<p>Of course, you&#8217;ve read all this before, and so it must somehow not have been compelling to you.  But maybe it will be for someone else.</p>
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