Comments on: The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain… http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/ Searching for wit and wisdom in a wilderness of words... Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:51:30 +0000 hourly 1 By: ElShaddai Edwards http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-850 ElShaddai Edwards Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:31:53 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-850 Of course, the one translation I failed to note has an interesting approach as well: <blockquote>Psalm 110:3 (New English Bible) -- "At birth you were endowed with princely gifts and resplendent in holiness. / You have shone with the dew of youth since your mother bore you."</blockquote> Here the poetic structure is ABBA. I like how it retains "the dew of youth" as a metaphor, though "the womb of dawn" has been translated into more direct birth language. Of course, the one translation I failed to note has an interesting approach as well:

Psalm 110:3 (New English Bible) — “At birth you were endowed with princely gifts and resplendent in holiness. / You have shone with the dew of youth since your mother bore you.”

Here the poetic structure is ABBA. I like how it retains “the dew of youth” as a metaphor, though “the womb of dawn” has been translated into more direct birth language.

]]> By: Nathan http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-863 Nathan Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:45:34 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-863 To be honest I've only spent a few hours reading the NT so I can't really comment there. Most of my reading has been limited to the Psalms, pentateuch, and comparisons of specific passages with my other versions. If you want a nice text-only hardback I'd recommend the one which I purchased. It's a smallish 8x6x1.5 inches and a great reference for me. Only $15 new on Amazon, it's ISBN is 0385493207. To be honest I’ve only spent a few hours reading the NT so I can’t really comment there. Most of my reading has been limited to the Psalms, pentateuch, and comparisons of specific passages with my other versions. If you want a nice text-only hardback I’d recommend the one which I purchased. It’s a smallish 8×6x1.5 inches and a great reference for me. Only $15 new on Amazon, it’s ISBN is 0385493207.

]]> By: ElShaddai Edwards http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-862 ElShaddai Edwards Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:25:17 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-862 I used to have a leather NJB and loved the OT for many of the same reasons; I wasn't so sure about the NT. I should find a text-only hardback for my shelf. I'm looking forward to the increased used of "Yahweh" in the CSB update next year too! I haven't had a chance to really look at the variants yet, but your hypothesis makes some sense. I used to have a leather NJB and loved the OT for many of the same reasons; I wasn’t so sure about the NT. I should find a text-only hardback for my shelf. I’m looking forward to the increased used of “Yahweh” in the CSB update next year too!

I haven’t had a chance to really look at the variants yet, but your hypothesis makes some sense.

]]> By: Nathan http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-861 Nathan Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:59:42 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-861 The NJB is one of my favorite translations for the OT. I much prefer it's use of Yahweh for the sacred name to the more generic sounding the LORD that is in common use. Also, it reads fairly comfortably and compares closely to the NIV as best I can tell. However it does sometimes read more smoothly, or poetically. I also appreciate that it has the extra books from the RC canon. One last thing... Is it me or do you think perhaps the NJB translation sort of reconciles the opposing meanings of the hebrew and greek for this passage? It seems to use the vocabulary of the hebrew, but the meaning could be taken as messianic perhaps. I showed your blog entry to my pastor and that was our observation after discussing your post and the comments. The NJB is one of my favorite translations for the OT. I much prefer it’s use of Yahweh for the sacred name to the more generic sounding the LORD that is in common use. Also, it reads fairly comfortably and compares closely to the NIV as best I can tell. However it does sometimes read more smoothly, or poetically. I also appreciate that it has the extra books from the RC canon.

One last thing… Is it me or do you think perhaps the NJB translation sort of reconciles the opposing meanings of the hebrew and greek for this passage? It seems to use the vocabulary of the hebrew, but the meaning could be taken as messianic perhaps. I showed your blog entry to my pastor and that was our observation after discussing your post and the comments.

]]> By: ElShaddai Edwards http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-860 ElShaddai Edwards Sun, 10 Feb 2008 02:51:26 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-860 Thanks, Nathan. I really like the twin parallelisms of the New Jerusalem's translation, between "royal dignity / sacred honor" and "day of your birth / dawn of your youth". That's well done! Thanks, Nathan. I really like the twin parallelisms of the New Jerusalem’s translation, between “royal dignity / sacred honor” and “day of your birth / dawn of your youth”. That’s well done!

]]> By: Nathan http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-859 Nathan Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:29:00 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-859 Very interesting comments. I thought I'd add two more translations: New English Translation of Septuagint (NETS): "With you is* rule on a day of your power among the splendors of the holy ones. From the womb, before Morning-star, I brought you forth. *or be" New Jerusalem Bible: "Royal* dignity has been yours from the day of your birth, sacred honour from the womb, from the dawn of your youth. *Conjectural translation of a textually corrupt and obscure v." Very interesting comments. I thought I’d add two more translations:

New English Translation of Septuagint (NETS):

“With you is* rule on a day of your power among the splendors of the holy ones.
From the womb, before Morning-star, I brought you forth.

*or be”

New Jerusalem Bible:

“Royal* dignity has been yours from the day of your birth,
sacred honour from the womb, from the dawn of your youth.

*Conjectural translation of a textually corrupt and obscure v.”

]]> By: ElShaddai Edwards http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-858 ElShaddai Edwards Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:17:42 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-858 @Peter: Thanks for the response. Given that the HCSB, TNIV, ESV and Tanakh translations all include a "Hebrew is uncertain" footnote in this verse, your condemnation is broad. The NRSV helpfully cited the alternate text that "tc" mentioned, while the NLT and REB had no footnote. I had only an electronic KJV, so I'm not sure what they've noted, if anything. @Esteban: thank you for posting the Septuagint translation. That's a fascinating difference between the two. @Andrew: I generally prefer the REB for "literary quality", but the HCSB has some nice turns of phrase as well. Ironically, in my opinion, they've got a bit of a poetic clunker in the first half of this verse (110:3a): <blockquote>Your people will volunteer on Your day of battle.</blockquote> @Peter: Thanks for the response. Given that the HCSB, TNIV, ESV and Tanakh translations all include a “Hebrew is uncertain” footnote in this verse, your condemnation is broad. The NRSV helpfully cited the alternate text that “tc” mentioned, while the NLT and REB had no footnote. I had only an electronic KJV, so I’m not sure what they’ve noted, if anything.

@Esteban: thank you for posting the Septuagint translation. That’s a fascinating difference between the two.

@Andrew: I generally prefer the REB for “literary quality”, but the HCSB has some nice turns of phrase as well. Ironically, in my opinion, they’ve got a bit of a poetic clunker in the first half of this verse (110:3a):

Your people will volunteer on Your day of battle.

]]> By: Peter Kirk http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-857 Peter Kirk Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:32:24 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-857 Interesting that you respond in this way to this footnote! I must say I find it extremely unhelpful, and I think most readers share that opinion. It's like the translators abdicating responsibility. Interesting that you respond in this way to this footnote! I must say I find it extremely unhelpful, and I think most readers share that opinion. It’s like the translators abdicating responsibility.

]]> By: tc http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-856 tc Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:02:47 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-856 Will, I'm Reformed, the blinded bias of ESV lovers, I really cannot understand. It seems like Reformed guys are going out there way to support this version while overlooking its weaknesses. Though I would recommend the ESV over the NASB, I still prefer the NIV/TNIV, HCSB and the NET. Will,

I’m Reformed, the blinded bias of ESV lovers, I really cannot understand. It seems like Reformed guys are going out there way to support this version while overlooking its weaknesses.

Though I would recommend the ESV over the NASB, I still prefer the NIV/TNIV, HCSB and the NET.

]]> By: tc http://heissufficient.com/2008/02/09/the-meaning-of-the-hebrew-is-uncertain/comment-page-1/#comment-855 tc Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:58:45 +0000 http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=551#comment-855 Elshaddi, The CSB is the winner here on a rather obscure text. The NIV is quite familiar with "Arrayed in holy majesty, from the womb of the dawn you will receive the dew of your youth" (Ps 110:3b) I couldn't help noticing that the TNIV has adopted the footnote of the NIV in the text. Elshaddi,

The CSB is the winner here on a rather obscure text. The NIV is quite familiar with

“Arrayed in holy majesty,
from the womb of the dawn
you will receive the dew of your youth” (Ps 110:3b)

I couldn’t help noticing that the TNIV has adopted the footnote of the NIV in the text.

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