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	<title>Comments on: The winner&#8217;s wreath: a preview of literary excellence in translation</title>
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	<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/</link>
	<description>Searching for wit and wisdom in a wilderness of words...</description>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>That was my mind&#039;s expansion of the translated phrase in explaining my approach to TC, not a proposed rendering. I was just literarily vamping on the NJB&#039;s translation &quot;A wreath that will wither&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was my mind&#8217;s expansion of the translated phrase in explaining my approach to TC, not a proposed rendering. I was just literarily vamping on the NJB&#8217;s translation &#8220;A wreath that will wither&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1254</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1254</guid>
		<description>I agree that the &quot;crown&quot; in question is in fact a garland or wreath, which will wither or fade rather than tarnish. But it seems too much to read three actions, &quot;the drying, the fading, the withering away of the leaves&quot;, into one word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the &#8220;crown&#8221; in question is in fact a garland or wreath, which will wither or fade rather than tarnish. But it seems too much to read three actions, &#8220;the drying, the fading, the withering away of the leaves&#8221;, into one word.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1253</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1253</guid>
		<description>Always a good point to remember, Peter. Thank you. In this particular passage, it seems that the flavor of the English word chosen as the translation of &lt;em&gt;phthartos&lt;/em&gt; (corruptible, withered, fading) will depend in large part on how you translate &lt;em&gt;stephanos&lt;/em&gt; (crown, wreath, garland).

All three of the options used here are listed as viable possibilities in Strongs and Vines, and I can only pass along the argument that if Paul truly meant a royal crown, he might have used &lt;em&gt;diadema&lt;/em&gt; instead. But here, athletic competition is the context, and a woven garland of botanicals seems to be a more appropriate choice.

As such, I&#039;m less inclined to argue with a translation of &lt;em&gt;phthartos&lt;/em&gt; that draws out the perishable aspect of a leafy &quot;crown&quot;, whether that be &quot;withering&quot; or &quot;fading&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always a good point to remember, Peter. Thank you. In this particular passage, it seems that the flavor of the English word chosen as the translation of <em>phthartos</em> (corruptible, withered, fading) will depend in large part on how you translate <em>stephanos</em> (crown, wreath, garland).</p>
<p>All three of the options used here are listed as viable possibilities in Strongs and Vines, and I can only pass along the argument that if Paul truly meant a royal crown, he might have used <em>diadema</em> instead. But here, athletic competition is the context, and a woven garland of botanicals seems to be a more appropriate choice.</p>
<p>As such, I&#8217;m less inclined to argue with a translation of <em>phthartos</em> that draws out the perishable aspect of a leafy &#8220;crown&#8221;, whether that be &#8220;withering&#8221; or &#8220;fading&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1252</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1252</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;how these so-called “literary translations” render phrases in ways that color the English in a manner that a translation like the TNIV does not attempt.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think there is very often a good reason not attempt to colour translations in this way. Not only does it give to the translation a literary feel which is not necessarily in the original, it can also compromise the accuracy of the translation. In the original, if there is any &quot;description of the drying, the fading, the withering away of the leaves that make up a champion’s wreath&quot;, it is all in one word, so to spell this out further in a translation is to risk adding to the Bible message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>how these so-called “literary translations” render phrases in ways that color the English in a manner that a translation like the TNIV does not attempt.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think there is very often a good reason not attempt to colour translations in this way. Not only does it give to the translation a literary feel which is not necessarily in the original, it can also compromise the accuracy of the translation. In the original, if there is any &#8220;description of the drying, the fading, the withering away of the leaves that make up a champion’s wreath&#8221;, it is all in one word, so to spell this out further in a translation is to risk adding to the Bible message.</p>
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		<title>By: TC</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1251</link>
		<dc:creator>TC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1251</guid>
		<description>Elshaddai, forgive me, but now I see what you&#039;ve been getting at.

I do like your amalgamation up to v.26, and I think it has satisfied &lt;a href=&quot;http://tcconnecting.blogspot.com/2008/03/in-last-two-decades-or-so-there-has.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my three marks of a good translation&lt;/a&gt;.  But I still prefer the TNIV at v. 27.  I really find it hard to beat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elshaddai, forgive me, but now I see what you&#8217;ve been getting at.</p>
<p>I do like your amalgamation up to v.26, and I think it has satisfied <a  href="http://tcconnecting.blogspot.com/2008/03/in-last-two-decades-or-so-there-has.html" rel="nofollow">my three marks of a good translation</a>.  But I still prefer the TNIV at v. 27.  I really find it hard to beat.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1250</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1250</guid>
		<description>No, I&#039;m sure the TNIV is fine, albeit for its purposes. However, one of things I&#039;m trying to look at in this series is how these so-called &quot;literary translations&quot; render phrases in ways that color the English in a manner that a translation like the TNIV does not attempt.

That&#039;s not to say that the TNIV is wrong - I&#039;m just looking at the difference between &quot;They do it to get a crown that will not last&quot; and &quot;this is to win a wreath that will wither&quot;. Alliteration aside, the description of the drying, the fading, the withering away of the leaves that make up a champion&#039;s wreath creates a more visually rich picture than the straightforward &quot;crown that will not last&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m sure the TNIV is fine, albeit for its purposes. However, one of things I&#8217;m trying to look at in this series is how these so-called &#8220;literary translations&#8221; render phrases in ways that color the English in a manner that a translation like the TNIV does not attempt.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say that the TNIV is wrong &#8211; I&#8217;m just looking at the difference between &#8220;They do it to get a crown that will not last&#8221; and &#8220;this is to win a wreath that will wither&#8221;. Alliteration aside, the description of the drying, the fading, the withering away of the leaves that make up a champion&#8217;s wreath creates a more visually rich picture than the straightforward &#8220;crown that will not last&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: TC</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1249</link>
		<dc:creator>TC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1249</guid>
		<description>Elshaddai, sorry for the misplaced comments.  You&#039;re correct about that.

I really don&#039;t see the TNIV as being too wordy at v. 25.  Maybe my love of the TNIV is clouding my judgment...lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elshaddai, sorry for the misplaced comments.  You&#8217;re correct about that.</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t see the TNIV as being too wordy at v. 25.  Maybe my love of the TNIV is clouding my judgment&#8230;lol.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1248</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1248</guid>
		<description>TC - thanks for stopping by. I&#039;m a little confused by your comments on the REB though. Here&#039;s verse 27 from the REB:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I do not spare my body, but bring it under strict control, for fear that after preaching to others I should find myself disqualified.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I see both &quot;but&quot; (&lt;em&gt;alla&lt;/em&gt;) and &quot;body&quot;. Unless your critique was of my final rendering, which I&#039;ve acknowledged is inadequate.

As for verse 25, no surprise, I prefer the NJB and REB - the TNIV sounds pedestrian to me and the parallelism you note feels wordy compared to the former two. Never mind whether &quot;crown&quot; is the right translation of &lt;i&gt;stephanos&lt;/i&gt; to use for a Greek audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TC &#8211; thanks for stopping by. I&#8217;m a little confused by your comments on the REB though. Here&#8217;s verse 27 from the REB:</p>
<blockquote><p>I do not spare my body, but bring it under strict control, for fear that after preaching to others I should find myself disqualified.</p></blockquote>
<p>I see both &#8220;but&#8221; (<em>alla</em>) and &#8220;body&#8221;. Unless your critique was of my final rendering, which I&#8217;ve acknowledged is inadequate.</p>
<p>As for verse 25, no surprise, I prefer the NJB and REB &#8211; the TNIV sounds pedestrian to me and the parallelism you note feels wordy compared to the former two. Never mind whether &#8220;crown&#8221; is the right translation of <i>stephanos</i> to use for a Greek audience.</p>
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		<title>By: TC</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1247</link>
		<dc:creator>TC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1247</guid>
		<description>These verses may eventually come down to the literary taste of the reader.  While the KJV may have a good alliteration going, the TNIV has a parallelism that I find much better:

&lt;i&gt;They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.&lt;/i&gt;

The REB has done nothing with &lt;i&gt;alla&lt;/i&gt; at the beginning of verse 27, and as Peter has pointed out, there&#039;s no mention of &lt;i&gt;the body&lt;/i&gt;, which I think is key to this metaphor.

I still like the TNIV&#039;s rendering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These verses may eventually come down to the literary taste of the reader.  While the KJV may have a good alliteration going, the TNIV has a parallelism that I find much better:</p>
<p><i>They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.</i></p>
<p>The REB has done nothing with <i>alla</i> at the beginning of verse 27, and as Peter has pointed out, there&#8217;s no mention of <i>the body</i>, which I think is key to this metaphor.</p>
<p>I still like the TNIV&#8217;s rendering.</p>
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		<title>By: Translating Sport - Revision &#171; Discipulus Scripturae</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/04/16/the-winners-wreath-a-preview-of-literary-excellence-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-1246</link>
		<dc:creator>Translating Sport - Revision &#171; Discipulus Scripturae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.wordpress.com/?p=668#comment-1246</guid>
		<description>[...] my two previous efforts at translating 1 Cor. 9:26-27. I find myself being heavily influenced by ElShaddai&#8217;s post when making some changes. At some point I&#8217;d like to translate starting from verse 24 as he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my two previous efforts at translating 1 Cor. 9:26-27. I find myself being heavily influenced by ElShaddai&#8217;s post when making some changes. At some point I&#8217;d like to translate starting from verse 24 as he [...]</p>
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