Comments on: Ecclesiology matrix

By: TC

TC — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:28:28 +0000

Kevin, there’s always the temptation for more and more power. I believe that is why we need, as leaders, to go back to Scripture and realize that we are only servants to our people on behalf of Christ (1 Pet 5:1-4).

By: Kevin Sam

Kevin Sam — Fri, 09 May 2008 05:14:20 +0000

Plus, Pope Peter had to get training somewhere, right?

lol…I think Peter might have been the first to fight for congregational house churches. I can see how the apostolic communion was dispersed around the world after the fall of Jerusalem.

I believe the norm was eventually going to be a local church governed by a plurality of elders (Acts 14:23; 20:17, 28; Phil 1:1; Titus 1:5).

TC, I agree with that. However, the temptation of centralization of church hierarchies eventually took over. Even though I’m in the Lutheran church, many people in it like me, feel that local church government should be stronger. The temptation of power-grab in the higher ups need to be tempered.

By: TC

TC — Thu, 08 May 2008 20:49:22 +0000

Well, I believe we can learn a lot from the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. The dispute was settled after much discussion.

With the presence of the apostles and James, the Lord’s brother, was a sort of an hierarchy. But I don’t believe that that was meant to be the norm.

I believe the norm was eventually going to be a local church governed by a plurality of elders (Acts 14:23; 20:17, 28; Phil 1:1; Titus 1:5).

A sole bishop over a district is anachronistic at best.

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Thu, 08 May 2008 01:36:54 +0000

I guess I always viewed the Jerusalem church as run by the original apostles, who were bonded together by their common experience with Christ. The phrase “a hierarchy of bishops who stand in communion with each other” from the matrix description sounded similar to an apostolic communion, at least until they started dispersing across the world.

Plus they seemed, from the gospel descriptions, to be naturally interested in hierarchy – it doesn’t seem a stretch to imagine them sowing the initial seeds of an “episcopal” structure with each leading an area, but relating back to each other.

Plus, Pope Peter had to get training somewhere, right?

By: TC

TC — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:11:06 +0000

I didn’t know the church at Jerusalem was episcopal? How is that?

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:31:26 +0000

Which early church, TC? The episcopal Jerusalem church, run by James, Peter et al. Or the congregational Greek home churches, spun out of the synagogues and set up by Paul and his assistants?

By: TC

TC — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:24:33 +0000

I’ll have to say that I’m Low-Weak as well. Here’s a question I have: What was the early church as seen in Acts and the Epistles?

By: Kevin Sam

Kevin Sam — Wed, 07 May 2008 05:41:19 +0000

I’m probably somewhere between a high-weak and low-weak.

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Wed, 07 May 2008 03:17:16 +0000

More terms for my little brain. I don’t know if I can figure out where I am on the Ecclesiological Church Matrix. I can’t believe I even wrote that. But I read his post and can see the benefit as he describes it. I wonder what Paul would have thought of this. (What!)
Jeff

Sorry for lack of substance.