Comments on: The literary Bible: Deeds of doom!

By: Nathan Stitt

Nathan Stitt — Sat, 24 May 2008 13:41:36 +0000

So many books, so little income. I still can’t get over them charging $30 for a hardcover NT…

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Fri, 23 May 2008 00:35:51 +0000

It does seem intriguing, Nathan, doesn’t it? I don’t know if it’ll be a full-time participant in future posts of this series, but I’ll be sure to take a look at the verses as I work on them. Normally I’d also wait until the full Bible was completed, but a printed NT might be calling me too…

By: Nathan Stitt

Nathan Stitt — Thu, 22 May 2008 22:19:58 +0000

This post has me salivating for a copy of the ISV in hand already. I’ve been waiting for the whole bible, but I may just grab the NT for now.

By: TC

TC — Thu, 22 May 2008 17:00:56 +0000

Yeah, I like “They are destined to doom according to their deeds.” There’s some kind of alliteration going on.

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Thu, 22 May 2008 11:10:24 +0000

Thanks, TC. I should have noted the HCSB in my comment above as using “works” in 15 for ergon, along with the KJV.

Also interesting is the HCSB’s choice of “destiny” for telos in 15 – that’s hand-in-hand with the REB’s “fate”.

I suppose the ultimate literary translation would be “They are destined to doom according to their deeds!”

By: TCR

TCR — Thu, 22 May 2008 03:27:24 +0000

Hey guys! I know I’m late on this one, but I like the exchange. I like both the REB and NJB “to cut the ground from under.” I get it, and it carries along the sense of ἐκκόψω.

On v. 13, REB “confidence trickters” strikes me as odd. I like the other better. “False apostles” is fine.

On v. 14, REB does not translate “γὰρ.” Both Lattimore and NJB render it “even,” and ISV as “since.” I like “even” better.

On v. 15, I agree that we should try to keep the wordplay with ἐργά and τὰ ἔργα αὐτῶν.

Here’s the HCSB:

“deceitful workers” (v. 13) and “according to their works.”

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Thu, 22 May 2008 02:35:47 +0000

I like that, a lot. I like “deceiving” there, even better than “deceitful” in the NRSV – it’s a more active tone with more presence and impact. And, of course, the repetition of “deeds”. Well done!

By: J. K. Gayle

J. K. Gayle — Thu, 22 May 2008 02:25:09 +0000

El Shaddai,
I really like the ISV, especially its ending here. If it were to keep the wordplay around erg* in 13 and 15, then maybe it could be revised this way:

Such people are false apostles, workers of deceiving deeds who are masquerading as apostles of the Messiah…
So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their doom will match their deeds!

What do you think?

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Wed, 21 May 2008 11:36:55 +0000

Thank you, J.K. I have to confess that my understanding of the Greek is limited to the references in Strong's and Vines provided on Blue Letter Bible and elsewhere online, so I really do appreciate your putting the entire passage in context. I see that I missed the wordplay between ergates in vs.13 and ergon in vs.15, though none of the translations considered here uses "works" in the latter to tie in with "worker" (as the KJV does).

By: J. K. Gayle

J. K. Gayle — Wed, 21 May 2008 10:47:50 +0000

Fantastic post! Absolutely wonderful side by side comparisons with your discussion! But with, or instead of, your "modern literary translation" as the comparison, why not give the Greek (and perhaps its transliteration for your readers who need/ want that)? 12 ὃ δὲ ποιῶ καὶ ποιήσω ἵνα ἐκκόψω τὴν ἀφορμὴν τῶν θελόντων ἀφορμήν ἵνα ἐν ᾧ καυχῶνται εὑρεθῶσιν καθὼς καὶ ἡμεῖς 13 οἱ γὰρ τοιοῦτοι ψευδαπόστολοι ἐργά ται δόλιοι μετασχηματιζόμενοι εἰς ἀποστόλους Χριστοῦ 14 καὶ οὐ θαῦμα αὐτὸς γὰρ ὁ Σατανᾶς μετασχηματίζεται εἰς ἄγγελον φωτός 15 οὐ μέγα οὖν εἰ καὶ οἱ διάκονοι αὐτοῦ μετασχηματίζονται ὡς διάκονοι δικαιοσύνης ὧν τὸ τέλος ἔσται κατὰ τὰ ἔργα αὐτῶν 12 ho de poiO kai poiEsO hina ekkoPSO tEn a-PHormEn tOn THelontOn a-PHormEn hina en hO kauCHOntai eureTHOsin kaTHos kai hEmeis. 13 hoi gar toioutoi PSeud-apostoloi ergatai dolioi meta-sCHematiZomenoi eis apostolous CHristou 14 kai ou THauma autos gar ho Satanas meta-sCHematizetai eis aggelon PHOtos 15 ou mega ouv ei kai hoi diakonoi autou meta-sCHematizontai hOs diakonoi dikaiosuvEs hWn to telos estai kata ta erga autOn (Of course, the boldings so liberally added above are mine to illustrate some of Paul's word play that the Englishes choose to follow or to be inspired by in uniquely English language ways.)