Comments on: Idiomatic English: poems vs hymns

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:56:07 +0000

Great points on the differences on poetic emphasis, Jim. Do you have any insight on Greek poetry forms? And as I noted in the post, whether this passage is a hymn or even poetry at all has been debated and critiqued by no less than Gordon Fee.

By: Jim Swindle

Jim Swindle — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 08:42:32 +0000

Somehow I find the ISV strangely disconcerting. English poetry usually puts a lot of emphasis on rhythms of sounds: meter and rhyme and alliteration. Hebrew poetry, as near as I can tell, normally doesn’t. It’s based largely on rhythm of ideas. That’s wonderful (a blessing from God), because it’s much easier to translate rhythm of ideas than rhythm of sound. The ISV’s translator(s) did a wonderful job on that poem in Philippians 2, but I think I’d like to sing their version instead of reading it as scripture.

One more thought: I’d revise their version of Philippians 2:7-8, as follows:
In human form he chose to be.
He lived in all humility;
Died on a cross obeying.
That gets rid of the strange idea that Jesus obeyed death on a cross. Still, as I read the ISV poetry, I keep thinking I’m missing something.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:44:14 +0000

Excellent thoughts El, and thanks for picking this back up for a good discussion. As it is, I love that the ISV has decided to do this, but agree with you that maybe the structure should have been better/different.

By: tc robinson

tc robinson — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:45:18 +0000

I agree that it wouldn’t work in contemporary, idiomatic English.

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:43:05 +0000

For what it is as poetry, the ISV is very well done. No argument about that – I’m just questioning if it’s the right form to present a hymn in contemporary, idiomatic English.

By: tc robinson

tc robinson — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:39:13 +0000

Great literary analysis, El! But I like the ISV’s rendering. I find it appealing. May be because its different. I went looking for an email exchange between Dr. Wallace and I on this text, but I haven’t found it. I’ll have to do some more digging. I hope I can find it so I can post it here.

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:25:58 +0000

Perhaps there’s a better way to parse it, but I’m reading it in a lilting iambic tetrameter and the commonness of the rhythm feels like the meter in a kid’s book or a set of limericks, rather than something that was or could be sung.

When I read the ISV rendering on Bryan’s blog I knew it sounded a little contrived to me but couldn’t quite describe why until I read what you wrote.
Jeff