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	<title>Comments on: Is the HCSB &#8220;too safe&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/</link>
	<description>Searching for wit and wisdom in a wilderness of words...</description>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-4009</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Leman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Wayne, if you don’t mind saying, was the publisher in on the committee meetings? With clock in hand and keeping track of money spent?&lt;/i&gt;

I doubt it. But I did sense urgency among the team for getting the translation done quickly.

&lt;i&gt;I can’t remember if it was Zondervan or Tyndale that said the publisher doesn’t sit in on the translation committee meetings.&lt;/i&gt;

That would be Zondervan. Neither the publisher (Zondervan) nor copyright holder (IBS) sits in on meetings of the CBT that revises the NIV and TNIV.

&lt;i&gt;I’ve noticed you’re part of the ISV team.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, only as a volunteer reviewer. I have nothing to do with translation decisions made by the ISV team itself. Anyone can help review the ISV. Those who do a fair amount get their names listed on &lt;a href=&quot;http://isv.org/about_us/reviewers.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an ISV page for reviewers&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wayne, if you don’t mind saying, was the publisher in on the committee meetings? With clock in hand and keeping track of money spent?</i></p>
<p>I doubt it. But I did sense urgency among the team for getting the translation done quickly.</p>
<p><i>I can’t remember if it was Zondervan or Tyndale that said the publisher doesn’t sit in on the translation committee meetings.</i></p>
<p>That would be Zondervan. Neither the publisher (Zondervan) nor copyright holder (IBS) sits in on meetings of the CBT that revises the NIV and TNIV.</p>
<p><i>I’ve noticed you’re part of the ISV team.</i></p>
<p>Well, only as a volunteer reviewer. I have nothing to do with translation decisions made by the ISV team itself. Anyone can help review the ISV. Those who do a fair amount get their names listed on <a  href="http://isv.org/about_us/reviewers.htm" rel="nofollow">an ISV page for reviewers</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Scripture Zealot</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3383</link>
		<dc:creator>Scripture Zealot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3383</guid>
		<description>Wayne, if you don&#039;t mind saying, was the publisher in on the committee meetings? With clock in hand and keeping track of money spent? If not no need to respond.

I can&#039;t remember if it was Zondervan or Tyndale that said the publisher doesn&#039;t sit in on the translation committee meetings.

I&#039;ve noticed you&#039;re part of the ISV team. I&#039;m going to be looking into that one more in the near future.
Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne, if you don&#8217;t mind saying, was the publisher in on the committee meetings? With clock in hand and keeping track of money spent? If not no need to respond.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t remember if it was Zondervan or Tyndale that said the publisher doesn&#8217;t sit in on the translation committee meetings.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve noticed you&#8217;re part of the ISV team. I&#8217;m going to be looking into that one more in the near future.<br />
Jeff</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3382</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3382</guid>
		<description>@Peter: &lt;i&gt;Perhaps with “the One” the HCSB translators weren’t so much choosing to be gender generic as translating after watching The Matrix!&lt;/i&gt;

Well... maybe &quot;Neo&quot; is an Southern way of pronouncing &quot;Nero&quot; - might be something nefarious there!

@Wayne: thank you for that valuable insight on the HCSB - I hope that the alleged update coming out next year is thoughtfully done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter: <i>Perhaps with “the One” the HCSB translators weren’t so much choosing to be gender generic as translating after watching The Matrix!</i></p>
<p>Well&#8230; maybe &#8220;Neo&#8221; is an Southern way of pronouncing &#8220;Nero&#8221; &#8211; might be something nefarious there!</p>
<p>@Wayne: thank you for that valuable insight on the HCSB &#8211; I hope that the alleged update coming out next year is thoughtfully done.</p>
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		<title>By: tc robinson</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3379</link>
		<dc:creator>tc robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3379</guid>
		<description>Wayne, thanks for this input.  I really appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne, thanks for this input.  I really appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3378</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Leman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3378</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It seems to me, rushed in some parts.&lt;/i&gt;

I agree. If we look back at the period of time when the HCSB was being produced, there was a great deal of agitation in some quarters about gender language revision of the NIV. So there was a rush to get two versions to market, the HCSB and ESV to combat the perceived ills of the TNIV. I was able to observe some of the HCSB rush internally since their team paid my way to meet with them. I presented a list of problems with the HCSB that I had seen to that point (I think the N.T. had been published). They hired me to give them editorial input to address the problems. In the meeting and in subsequent months as I worked with them, I could sense how rushed they felt. I don&#039;t know how much of that was simply a desire to get the job done quickly to save money or for other reasons, and how much was a desire to combat what they saw as gender-language problems. My time working with the HCSB folks was short-lived.

Still, I think the final product is reasonable. It just could be even better, which is true of all Bible versions, but especially those which are rushed.

I think that the bulk of the revision of the RSV to create the ESV was done in two years. That&#039;s not much time for doing a quality job on a Bible translation. IMO, the odd English and inconsistent revisions reflect the ESV rush job.

But God can use rush jobs, as well as he can use those which take longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It seems to me, rushed in some parts.</i></p>
<p>I agree. If we look back at the period of time when the HCSB was being produced, there was a great deal of agitation in some quarters about gender language revision of the NIV. So there was a rush to get two versions to market, the HCSB and ESV to combat the perceived ills of the TNIV. I was able to observe some of the HCSB rush internally since their team paid my way to meet with them. I presented a list of problems with the HCSB that I had seen to that point (I think the N.T. had been published). They hired me to give them editorial input to address the problems. In the meeting and in subsequent months as I worked with them, I could sense how rushed they felt. I don&#8217;t know how much of that was simply a desire to get the job done quickly to save money or for other reasons, and how much was a desire to combat what they saw as gender-language problems. My time working with the HCSB folks was short-lived.</p>
<p>Still, I think the final product is reasonable. It just could be even better, which is true of all Bible versions, but especially those which are rushed.</p>
<p>I think that the bulk of the revision of the RSV to create the ESV was done in two years. That&#8217;s not much time for doing a quality job on a Bible translation. IMO, the odd English and inconsistent revisions reflect the ESV rush job.</p>
<p>But God can use rush jobs, as well as he can use those which take longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3375</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3375</guid>
		<description>Perhaps with &quot;the One&quot; the HCSB translators weren&#039;t so much choosing to be gender generic as translating after watching The Matrix!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps with &#8220;the One&#8221; the HCSB translators weren&#8217;t so much choosing to be gender generic as translating after watching The Matrix!</p>
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		<title>By: tc robinson</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3374</link>
		<dc:creator>tc robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3374</guid>
		<description>El, I would think that &quot;the One&quot; would nullify all suspicion.  But that&#039;s a good observation against the TNIV&#039;s &quot;him&quot; at Rom 9:12 (see NRSV).

Bryon, yeah, I just noticed the HCSB at Mark 1:41.  A textual note would have been good.  And yes, I cry, &quot;too safe!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>El, I would think that &#8220;the One&#8221; would nullify all suspicion.  But that&#8217;s a good observation against the TNIV&#8217;s &#8220;him&#8221; at Rom 9:12 (see NRSV).</p>
<p>Bryon, yeah, I just noticed the HCSB at Mark 1:41.  A textual note would have been good.  And yes, I cry, &#8220;too safe!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bryon</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3373</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t keep a &quot;hit list&quot; but Mark 1:41 would be one that comes to mind. I also feel the HCSB rendered John 1:18 weaker than other translations have. There&#039;s many who would dispute that with me though. For a John 1:18 comparison see the NASB, NIV, NRSV, TNIV, ESV, etc. As for what I would propose in place? probably the NRSV or TNIV. Again, I don&#039;t dislike it, there&#039;s just other choices out there that suit my needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t keep a &#8220;hit list&#8221; but Mark 1:41 would be one that comes to mind. I also feel the HCSB rendered John 1:18 weaker than other translations have. There&#8217;s many who would dispute that with me though. For a John 1:18 comparison see the NASB, NIV, NRSV, TNIV, ESV, etc. As for what I would propose in place? probably the NRSV or TNIV. Again, I don&#8217;t dislike it, there&#8217;s just other choices out there that suit my needs.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3372</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3372</guid>
		<description>Bryon - do you have some more examples of missing footnotes, other than what TC pointed out? I&#039;m not disputing the issue, just curious where you saw a failure to document translation alternatives.

I&#039;ve found the HCSB to be a nice alternative to the ESV and NRSV for someone who wants something a little more on the literal side, but with the modern language (grammar) of a functional translation. I think of it as a &quot;more literal NIV&quot;. What else do you propose in this niche?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryon &#8211; do you have some more examples of missing footnotes, other than what TC pointed out? I&#8217;m not disputing the issue, just curious where you saw a failure to document translation alternatives.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve found the HCSB to be a nice alternative to the ESV and NRSV for someone who wants something a little more on the literal side, but with the modern language (grammar) of a functional translation. I think of it as a &#8220;more literal NIV&#8221;. What else do you propose in this niche?</p>
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		<title>By: Bryon</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/15/is-the-hcsb-too-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-3370</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.net/?p=907#comment-3370</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve found that it does fail to footnote alternative renderings and sometimes its footnotes appear careless. It seems to me, rushed in some parts. I don&#039;t think the HCSB is a bad translation, but I think there&#039;s other choices out there that don&#039;t have these weaknesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve found that it does fail to footnote alternative renderings and sometimes its footnotes appear careless. It seems to me, rushed in some parts. I don&#8217;t think the HCSB is a bad translation, but I think there&#8217;s other choices out there that don&#8217;t have these weaknesses.</p>
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