Comments on: Should Christians be having babies? http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=should-christians-be-having-babies A personal walk in a wilderness of words Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Brian http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3468 Brian Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:15:17 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3468 <i>but instead he’s noting that whatever legalistic reasons existed to pursue procreation were removed when Jesus was born and died as the Messiah</i>. I think this is it. If I didn't feel so old, I'd have more kids. but instead he’s noting that whatever legalistic reasons existed to pursue procreation were removed when Jesus was born and died as the Messiah.

I think this is it.

If I didn’t feel so old, I’d have more kids.

]]> By: tc robinson http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3453 tc robinson Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:38:48 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3453 <i>I think it’s inevitable that there will be procreation until the end of time - I don’t think Moltmann is calling for an Church-wide vow of celibacy to usher in the end of time, but instead he’s noting that whatever legalistic reasons existed to pursue procreation were removed when Jesus was born and died as the Messiah.</i> But how does that all fit with "Be fruitful and filled the earth"? Were the Jews legalistic in their pursuit of procreation? What evidence does Moltmann provide? I think it’s inevitable that there will be procreation until the end of time – I don’t think Moltmann is calling for an Church-wide vow of celibacy to usher in the end of time, but instead he’s noting that whatever legalistic reasons existed to pursue procreation were removed when Jesus was born and died as the Messiah.

But how does that all fit with “Be fruitful and filled the earth”? Were the Jews legalistic in their pursuit of procreation? What evidence does Moltmann provide?

]]> By: ElShaddai Edwards http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3450 ElShaddai Edwards Thu, 25 Sep 2008 01:49:28 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3450 @Peter: yes, I thought of that 1 Cor. passage while I was writing the post and should have included it for reference. I'm sure that Moltmann had that in mind when he wrote that third point. @Nathan: indeed, me too! My oldest is 4-1/2 and I marvel at how he grows, inside and out. But honestly, we have two and that's enough - we're not the spring chickens we used to be... @TC: I had that thought as well, reading the first point. I think it's inevitable that there will be procreation until the end of time - I don't think Moltmann is calling for an Church-wide vow of celibacy to usher in the end of time, but instead he's noting that whatever legalistic reasons existed to pursue procreation were removed when Jesus was born and died as the Messiah. @Peter: yes, I thought of that 1 Cor. passage while I was writing the post and should have included it for reference. I’m sure that Moltmann had that in mind when he wrote that third point.

@Nathan: indeed, me too! My oldest is 4-1/2 and I marvel at how he grows, inside and out. But honestly, we have two and that’s enough – we’re not the spring chickens we used to be…

@TC: I had that thought as well, reading the first point.

I think it’s inevitable that there will be procreation until the end of time – I don’t think Moltmann is calling for an Church-wide vow of celibacy to usher in the end of time, but instead he’s noting that whatever legalistic reasons existed to pursue procreation were removed when Jesus was born and died as the Messiah.

]]> By: ElShaddai Edwards http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3449 ElShaddai Edwards Thu, 25 Sep 2008 01:34:03 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3449 @Stephen: <i>Filling the earth with godly offspring is no longer a sacrament, if that’s what Moltmann meant, but I think it’s definitely an ongoing and limitless fulfillment of Genesis 1 to do so.</i> Thanks for all the great thoughts and insight - very much appreciated! Regarding sacraments, Damian had <a href="http://castleofnutshells.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/marriage-as-sacrament-pre-trent-catholic-and-protestant-marriage/" rel="nofollow">a great post on the sacrament of marriage</a> - it would be interesting to revisit that in light of some of Moltmann's comments. @Stephen: Filling the earth with godly offspring is no longer a sacrament, if that’s what Moltmann meant, but I think it’s definitely an ongoing and limitless fulfillment of Genesis 1 to do so.

Thanks for all the great thoughts and insight – very much appreciated! Regarding sacraments, Damian had a great post on the sacrament of marriage – it would be interesting to revisit that in light of some of Moltmann’s comments.

]]> By: tc robinson http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3445 tc robinson Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:50:43 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3445 El, this is good stuff. He also seems to be suggesting egalitarianism is a consequence (I wish not to open a can of worms on this one), but that's what I gathered from his first point. The population has been going on and will end with the events of the End Times. El, this is good stuff. He also seems to be suggesting egalitarianism is a consequence (I wish not to open a can of worms on this one), but that’s what I gathered from his first point.

The population has been going on and will end with the events of the End Times.

]]> By: Nathan Stitt http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3444 Nathan Stitt Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:39:58 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3444 Well, watching my daughter grow up has been the most amazing experience in my entire life. I can't imagine living life without having children now (or not trying to have more of them :P ) Well, watching my daughter grow up has been the most amazing experience in my entire life. I can’t imagine living life without having children now (or not trying to have more of them :P )

]]> By: Peter Kirk http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3438 Peter Kirk Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:18:40 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3438 Your conclusion of course ties up with Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9,25-35 (which so far I have taken) that it is better not to get married, but permitted and preferable to sexual sin. Your conclusion of course ties up with Paul’s advice in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9,25-35 (which so far I have taken) that it is better not to get married, but permitted and preferable to sexual sin.

]]> By: Stephen Douglas http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3435 Stephen Douglas Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:59:57 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3435 You've stumbled upon the meaning of Christ's statement to the Sadduccees about the need for "marriage" in "the age to come". The context is clear that they were asking specifically about levirate marriage, not marriage <em>per se</em>: levirate marriage was concerned primarily with the concern for bearing children of the Covenant. Jesus was saying that the New Covenant would be perpetuated not by genetic lineage but by faith, so that the practice of levirate marriage would no longer be useful. Keep in mind that "marry" meant more than simply "exchange vows and become a legal couple" because marriage, like sex, was primarily a pragmatic covenantal insitution and not chiefly recreational. The mandate of Genesis 1 was not about perpetuating the covenant, but something greater. The "be fruitful and multiply" command/blessing was a statement of God's authorization of the natural order: God made men and women to marry/mate for the same reason all other species on the planet mate, namely to produce offspring. Paul, for his part, did a good job of affirming marriage as a part of the New Covenant. Filling the earth with godly offspring is no longer a sacrament, if that's what Moltmann meant, but I think it's definitely an ongoing and limitless fulfillment of Genesis 1 to do so. Necessary for Covenant participation? Certainly not. But I definitely believe that it's still to be the natural default for redeemed humanity as the head of the natural order. That's my opinion anyway. :) You’ve stumbled upon the meaning of Christ’s statement to the Sadduccees about the need for “marriage” in “the age to come”. The context is clear that they were asking specifically about levirate marriage, not marriage per se: levirate marriage was concerned primarily with the concern for bearing children of the Covenant. Jesus was saying that the New Covenant would be perpetuated not by genetic lineage but by faith, so that the practice of levirate marriage would no longer be useful. Keep in mind that “marry” meant more than simply “exchange vows and become a legal couple” because marriage, like sex, was primarily a pragmatic covenantal insitution and not chiefly recreational.

The mandate of Genesis 1 was not about perpetuating the covenant, but something greater. The “be fruitful and multiply” command/blessing was a statement of God’s authorization of the natural order: God made men and women to marry/mate for the same reason all other species on the planet mate, namely to produce offspring. Paul, for his part, did a good job of affirming marriage as a part of the New Covenant. Filling the earth with godly offspring is no longer a sacrament, if that’s what Moltmann meant, but I think it’s definitely an ongoing and limitless fulfillment of Genesis 1 to do so. Necessary for Covenant participation? Certainly not. But I definitely believe that it’s still to be the natural default for redeemed humanity as the head of the natural order.

That’s my opinion anyway. :)

]]> By: Robert Jimenez http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3431 Robert Jimenez Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:17:34 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3431 Interesting thought... Interesting thought…

]]> By: Richard http://heissufficient.com/2008/09/24/should-christians-be-having-babies/#comment-3430 Richard Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:15:45 +0000 http://heissufficient.com/?p=1132#comment-3430 Q: Should Christians be having babies? A: Yes, and many of them. Q: Should Christians be having babies?

A: Yes, and many of them.

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