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	<title>Comments on: Cunning punning in Genesis 3</title>
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	<description>Searching for wit and wisdom in a wilderness of words...</description>
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		<title>By: Should translations run with puns? &#171; Better Bibles Blog</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3919</link>
		<dc:creator>Should translations run with puns? &#171; Better Bibles Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3919</guid>
		<description>[...] wrote (Cunning punning in Genesis 3): With this in mind, we might think about how a “Literary Equivalent” English translation might [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wrote (Cunning punning in Genesis 3): With this in mind, we might think about how a “Literary Equivalent” English translation might [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3892</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3892</guid>
		<description>@mgvh: thanks for sharing the Ginzberg comment. It sounds like he&#039;s drawing in a parallel to a snake shedding its skin with humanity before and after sin.

As for Kass, I found that reference through a &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/books?id=IrgnCCtRKKoC&amp;pg=PA82&amp;lpg=PA82&amp;dq=kass+smooth+naked+genesis+3&amp;source=web&amp;ots=GsSYzi2G2c&amp;sig=kOsQIK8SVKJ0kQRLj_wbM_eEXd8&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;resnum=2&amp;ct=result&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Google book search&lt;/a&gt;, so maybe there&#039;s something more in his notes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mgvh: thanks for sharing the Ginzberg comment. It sounds like he&#8217;s drawing in a parallel to a snake shedding its skin with humanity before and after sin.</p>
<p>As for Kass, I found that reference through a <a  href="http://books.google.com/books?id=IrgnCCtRKKoC&#038;pg=PA82&#038;lpg=PA82&#038;dq=kass+smooth+naked+genesis+3&#038;source=web&#038;ots=GsSYzi2G2c&#038;sig=kOsQIK8SVKJ0kQRLj_wbM_eEXd8&#038;hl=en&#038;sa=X&#038;oi=book_result&#038;resnum=2&#038;ct=result" rel="nofollow">Google book search</a>, so maybe there&#8217;s something more in his notes?</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3891</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3891</guid>
		<description>@J.K. - you&#039;re right about proximity, of course. The 2.25 reference might have been the better one for the purposes of this post, though it does raise the question of what is meant by &quot;naked&quot; and how it relates to shame and/or the realization in 3.7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@J.K. &#8211; you&#8217;re right about proximity, of course. The 2.25 reference might have been the better one for the purposes of this post, though it does raise the question of what is meant by &#8220;naked&#8221; and how it relates to shame and/or the realization in 3.7.</p>
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		<title>By: mgvh</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3890</link>
		<dc:creator>mgvh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3890</guid>
		<description>I wish I could find more evidence for Kass&#039; claim that nakedness is related to smoothness. (&quot;The root sense of ‘erum, “naked,” is “smooth”: someone who is naked is hairless, clothesless, smooth of skin.&quot;) I can&#039;t find the connection in BDB or HALOT, but I would like to find it, because it would help explain one comment in Ginzberg&#039;s Legends of the Jews. (1.18 and notes 69 and 93 in vol. 6) 
Ginzberg writes: &quot;The first result [of their sin] was that Adam and Eve became naked. Before, their bodies had been overlaid with a horny skin, and enveloped with the cloud of glory. No sooner had they violated the command given them than the cloud of glory and the horny skin dropped from them, and they stood there in their nakedness, and ashamed.&quot;
His notes are less than clear about where the &quot;horny skin&quot; idea is from, but if &quot;smoothness&quot; is indeed connoted by &quot;naked,&quot; then there would be an explanation. Do note also the further wordplay contrasting Adam and Eve&#039;s original garment of light (reading אור ) with their subsequent garment of skin ( עור ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I could find more evidence for Kass&#8217; claim that nakedness is related to smoothness. (&#8220;The root sense of ‘erum, “naked,” is “smooth”: someone who is naked is hairless, clothesless, smooth of skin.&#8221;) I can&#8217;t find the connection in BDB or HALOT, but I would like to find it, because it would help explain one comment in Ginzberg&#8217;s Legends of the Jews. (1.18 and notes 69 and 93 in vol. 6)<br />
Ginzberg writes: &#8220;The first result [of their sin] was that Adam and Eve became naked. Before, their bodies had been overlaid with a horny skin, and enveloped with the cloud of glory. No sooner had they violated the command given them than the cloud of glory and the horny skin dropped from them, and they stood there in their nakedness, and ashamed.&#8221;<br />
His notes are less than clear about where the &#8220;horny skin&#8221; idea is from, but if &#8220;smoothness&#8221; is indeed connoted by &#8220;naked,&#8221; then there would be an explanation. Do note also the further wordplay contrasting Adam and Eve&#8217;s original garment of light (reading אור ) with their subsequent garment of skin ( עור ).</p>
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		<title>By: J. K. Gayle</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3883</link>
		<dc:creator>J. K. Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3883</guid>
		<description>ElShaddai,
What makes pun so compelling is the proximity of the one word (ערום /`arowm) in Genesis 2:25 to the other word (ערום/`aruwm) in Genesis 3:1.  Yes, the first word is repeated again Genesis 3:7.  

But the second word doesn&#039;t reappear except in Job 5:12 and 15:5, as negatively &quot;cunning&quot; - and yet many other times in the Proverbs as more positively &quot;prudent.&quot;  Not sure the &quot;smooth&quot; idea runs through this.

Your post did make me think of the contrast between Esau, who was cunning ( ידע/ yada`) as in Genesis 25:27 and Jacob, who was smooth ( חלק/ chalaq) as in Genesis 27:11.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ElShaddai,<br />
What makes pun so compelling is the proximity of the one word (ערום /`arowm) in Genesis 2:25 to the other word (ערום/`aruwm) in Genesis 3:1.  Yes, the first word is repeated again Genesis 3:7.  </p>
<p>But the second word doesn&#8217;t reappear except in Job 5:12 and 15:5, as negatively &#8220;cunning&#8221; &#8211; and yet many other times in the Proverbs as more positively &#8220;prudent.&#8221;  Not sure the &#8220;smooth&#8221; idea runs through this.</p>
<p>Your post did make me think of the contrast between Esau, who was cunning ( ידע/ yada`) as in Genesis 25:27 and Jacob, who was smooth ( חלק/ chalaq) as in Genesis 27:11.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3880</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 04:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3880</guid>
		<description>I like where you&#039;re going with this, exploring the angle of exposure and protection. I might edit my suggested wording of 3:7 to be something more along the lines of:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized that their smooth skin was exposed and unprotected; so they stitched fig-leaves together and made themselves loincloths.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s possible too that opening up the linguistic range of options in that verse could identify some other English wordplay options for v3:1. I&#039;ll have to think about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like where you&#8217;re going with this, exploring the angle of exposure and protection. I might edit my suggested wording of 3:7 to be something more along the lines of:</p>
<blockquote><p>Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized that their smooth skin was exposed and unprotected; so they stitched fig-leaves together and made themselves loincloths.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s possible too that opening up the linguistic range of options in that verse could identify some other English wordplay options for v3:1. I&#8217;ll have to think about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sangrey</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3856</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Sangrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3856</guid>
		<description>Your mentioning the pun made me think of an exegesis of this text I&#039;d never considered before.  Though the exegesis doesn&#039;t change the main point, it arrives at it in a different way.

My thought stems from the fact that puns usually have an underlying semantic tie.  That&#039;s the beauty of the pun in that you can say something that really isn&#039;t in the words of the text, and yet it makes the meaning of the text more precise.  With many puns it&#039;s this non-textual tie--determined and caused by the pun--that bursts into the mind and brings about laughter.

I often wondered what the issue was with &lt;i&gt;naked&lt;/i&gt; (not that I walk around the house nude or anything like that).  However, if the core, but explicit, concept is smoothness, then that brings another thought to mind.

Let me take Gen 3:7, paraphrase it and elucidate it through expansion so as to quickly get to my point.
&lt;i&gt;&quot;Then they suddenly became aware of something they hadn&#039;t seen before: the smoothness of their bodies showed they were exposed and unprotected.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The point wasn&#039;t the nakedness.  The point was their exposure evidenced by the smoothness.  So, to remedy the problem, they put on some kind of protection against the elements.

Now, does that help explain 3:10?  Here, too, I&#039;ve often wondered what the big deal of nakedness was.  In fact, they had already covered themselves so they weren&#039;t technically naked.  I can come up with explanations; however, all of them feel like I&#039;m reaching outside the text in order to explain the text.  I&#039;m uncomfortable with doing that.  However, if I consider that Adam and Eve had now experienced sin and their whole being was changed (metaphorically and spiritually, they had died), then being &lt;b&gt;exposed&lt;/b&gt; to a Holy God walking through the Paradise would have been a very fearful event. They would have felt totally unprotected.  That&#039;s not injecting anything into the text.

God then works to get to the bottom of this issue.  That is, who on earth put my two wonderful creatures, the height of my creation, into a place where they are fearful of me and think that I would not protect them.  The immediately questions from Him were, &quot;Whose responsible?&quot; and &quot;Have you sinned?&quot;

The pun between 3:1 and 3:7 sets the mind into the right frame to be able to more easily grasp this flow of thought.  And, more importantly, the danger of being a sinner in the presence of God.  That&#039;s excellent and very basic theology, IMO.  Ideal for this location of the development of the text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your mentioning the pun made me think of an exegesis of this text I&#8217;d never considered before.  Though the exegesis doesn&#8217;t change the main point, it arrives at it in a different way.</p>
<p>My thought stems from the fact that puns usually have an underlying semantic tie.  That&#8217;s the beauty of the pun in that you can say something that really isn&#8217;t in the words of the text, and yet it makes the meaning of the text more precise.  With many puns it&#8217;s this non-textual tie&#8211;determined and caused by the pun&#8211;that bursts into the mind and brings about laughter.</p>
<p>I often wondered what the issue was with <i>naked</i> (not that I walk around the house nude or anything like that).  However, if the core, but explicit, concept is smoothness, then that brings another thought to mind.</p>
<p>Let me take Gen 3:7, paraphrase it and elucidate it through expansion so as to quickly get to my point.<br />
<i>&#8220;Then they suddenly became aware of something they hadn&#8217;t seen before: the smoothness of their bodies showed they were exposed and unprotected.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The point wasn&#8217;t the nakedness.  The point was their exposure evidenced by the smoothness.  So, to remedy the problem, they put on some kind of protection against the elements.</p>
<p>Now, does that help explain 3:10?  Here, too, I&#8217;ve often wondered what the big deal of nakedness was.  In fact, they had already covered themselves so they weren&#8217;t technically naked.  I can come up with explanations; however, all of them feel like I&#8217;m reaching outside the text in order to explain the text.  I&#8217;m uncomfortable with doing that.  However, if I consider that Adam and Eve had now experienced sin and their whole being was changed (metaphorically and spiritually, they had died), then being <b>exposed</b> to a Holy God walking through the Paradise would have been a very fearful event. They would have felt totally unprotected.  That&#8217;s not injecting anything into the text.</p>
<p>God then works to get to the bottom of this issue.  That is, who on earth put my two wonderful creatures, the height of my creation, into a place where they are fearful of me and think that I would not protect them.  The immediately questions from Him were, &#8220;Whose responsible?&#8221; and &#8220;Have you sinned?&#8221;</p>
<p>The pun between 3:1 and 3:7 sets the mind into the right frame to be able to more easily grasp this flow of thought.  And, more importantly, the danger of being a sinner in the presence of God.  That&#8217;s excellent and very basic theology, IMO.  Ideal for this location of the development of the text.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter M. Lopez</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3839</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter M. Lopez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3839</guid>
		<description>Yes, Genesis (and the entire Old Testament) is full of this.  God&#039;s also a literary genius (surprise, surprise).  I don&#039;t have it at my fingertips, but Jeremiah 1 (&quot;almond&quot; and I forget what else) also has good word plays.  I really wish there was a way to capture all of this in the English language, though.  Nice work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Genesis (and the entire Old Testament) is full of this.  God&#8217;s also a literary genius (surprise, surprise).  I don&#8217;t have it at my fingertips, but Jeremiah 1 (&#8220;almond&#8221; and I forget what else) also has good word plays.  I really wish there was a way to capture all of this in the English language, though.  Nice work.</p>
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		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3821</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 02:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3821</guid>
		<description>Thanks for those notes, Ray - that&#039;s a great point about the REB, though I must point out that those renderings were originally from the NEB. I especially liked that they do note the literal Greek in a footnote so you know that they&#039;ve taken a liberty with the text. I&#039;m comparing the NEB/REB to the NRSV/NAB/NJB Apocryphas and none of those achieve nearly the same effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for those notes, Ray &#8211; that&#8217;s a great point about the REB, though I must point out that those renderings were originally from the NEB. I especially liked that they do note the literal Greek in a footnote so you know that they&#8217;ve taken a liberty with the text. I&#8217;m comparing the NEB/REB to the NRSV/NAB/NJB Apocryphas and none of those achieve nearly the same effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray McCalla</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2008/10/18/cunning-punning-in-genesis-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3820</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray McCalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=1030#comment-3820</guid>
		<description>I have been reading the REB Apocrypha recently, and I have encountered some clever, punny translations of wordplays in the Greek.  

For example in Daniel and Susanna, verses 54-55: Daniel said, &quot;&#039;Now, if you really saw this woman, then tell us, under what tree did you see them together?&#039;  He answered, &#039;Under a clove tree.&#039;  Daniel retorted, &#039;Very good!  This lie has cost you your life, for already God&#039;s angel has received your sentence from God, and he will cleave you in two.&#039;&quot;  The footnote points out this wordplay on &quot;clove&quot; and &quot;cleave.&quot;  

Again, in verses 58-59: &quot;&#039;Now tell me, under what tree did you surprise them together?&#039;  &#039;Under a yew tree,&#039; he replied.  Daniel said to him, &#039;Very good!  This lie has cost you also your life, for the angel of God is waiting sword in hand to hew you down and destroy the pair of you.&#039;&quot;  Again, the footnote points out the wordplay between &quot;yew&quot; and &quot;hew.&quot;  

I think this is very helpful and clever on the translators&#039; part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been reading the REB Apocrypha recently, and I have encountered some clever, punny translations of wordplays in the Greek.  </p>
<p>For example in Daniel and Susanna, verses 54-55: Daniel said, &#8220;&#8216;Now, if you really saw this woman, then tell us, under what tree did you see them together?&#8217;  He answered, &#8216;Under a clove tree.&#8217;  Daniel retorted, &#8216;Very good!  This lie has cost you your life, for already God&#8217;s angel has received your sentence from God, and he will cleave you in two.&#8217;&#8221;  The footnote points out this wordplay on &#8220;clove&#8221; and &#8220;cleave.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Again, in verses 58-59: &#8220;&#8216;Now tell me, under what tree did you surprise them together?&#8217;  &#8216;Under a yew tree,&#8217; he replied.  Daniel said to him, &#8216;Very good!  This lie has cost you also your life, for the angel of God is waiting sword in hand to hew you down and destroy the pair of you.&#8217;&#8221;  Again, the footnote points out the wordplay between &#8220;yew&#8221; and &#8220;hew.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I think this is very helpful and clever on the translators&#8217; part.</p>
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