<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Wright way of reading along with the NIV&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv</link>
	<description>A personal walk in a wilderness of words</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4886</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4886</guid>
		<description>The word &quot;blood&quot; in scripture is a key word which indicates suffering. By water and by blood, means by purification and by suffering.  Faith in his blood speaks of the faith which jesus had in his suffering. He walked with God in faith through suffering.

My RSV says, &quot;since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in christ jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith.&quot;

Here it is very plain that justification (to be made right in God&#039;s sight) comes through redemption (forgiveness from sin, or deliverance from sin) which is in christ jesus (anointed jesus), whom God put forward as an expiation (sin or atonement offering) by his blood (suffering), to be received by faith. This was to show God&#039;s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins (NIV says left the sins committed before hand unpunished) 

Now whose sins are we talking about here? Jesus sins&#039; or our sins. I only say this because the high-priest&#039;s function according to Hebrews  is to provide a ONCE FOR ALL  sacrifice for his OWN sins BEFORE he can provide purification of sins for his people. The sacrificial act of atonement MUST PRECEDE the INCEPTION of a holy ministry, else the high-priest is unable to provide forgiveness of sins for his people!!! Why does Paul speak of the crucifixion as a portrayal. Maybe Jesus had to be crucified so that people would understand the suffering which a person has to go through in order to be sanctified (made holy). This would make sense, as the apostles themselves all speak of the same patient endurance through suffering  which is by faith.

This is a very important point, esp since we are all told to believe jesus was always holy. He knew no sin, omits to tell us if there was a point at which he knew sin.  If the scripture had said he NEVER knew sin, we could say for certain that he never sinned.  Also backing up the theory that Jesus might not alwyas have been holy is this:

If he had been holy from birth, then why in John 17:19  does he say that he sanctified himself?  A holy man has no need of sanctification. Only the unholy require it because sanctification is the work of the holy spirit to purify a person from sin.

Secondly, if Jesus was always holy, why did his ministry only start in his 30&#039;s. What was he doing before then? Surely if he was always holy, then he would have had a life-long ministry. 

Thirdly, Heb 7:6 &quot;for it was fitting that we should have such a high-priest (Jesus), holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens. To be separated from sinners means that a man is set apart for holy use, or consecrated and this by sanctification. Sanctification is by the purification/forgiveness of sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word &#8220;blood&#8221; in scripture is a key word which indicates suffering. By water and by blood, means by purification and by suffering.  Faith in his blood speaks of the faith which jesus had in his suffering. He walked with God in faith through suffering.</p>
<p>My RSV says, &#8220;since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in christ jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here it is very plain that justification (to be made right in God&#8217;s sight) comes through redemption (forgiveness from sin, or deliverance from sin) which is in christ jesus (anointed jesus), whom God put forward as an expiation (sin or atonement offering) by his blood (suffering), to be received by faith. This was to show God&#8217;s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins (NIV says left the sins committed before hand unpunished) </p>
<p>Now whose sins are we talking about here? Jesus sins&#8217; or our sins. I only say this because the high-priest&#8217;s function according to Hebrews  is to provide a ONCE FOR ALL  sacrifice for his OWN sins BEFORE he can provide purification of sins for his people. The sacrificial act of atonement MUST PRECEDE the INCEPTION of a holy ministry, else the high-priest is unable to provide forgiveness of sins for his people!!! Why does Paul speak of the crucifixion as a portrayal. Maybe Jesus had to be crucified so that people would understand the suffering which a person has to go through in order to be sanctified (made holy). This would make sense, as the apostles themselves all speak of the same patient endurance through suffering  which is by faith.</p>
<p>This is a very important point, esp since we are all told to believe jesus was always holy. He knew no sin, omits to tell us if there was a point at which he knew sin.  If the scripture had said he NEVER knew sin, we could say for certain that he never sinned.  Also backing up the theory that Jesus might not alwyas have been holy is this:</p>
<p>If he had been holy from birth, then why in John 17:19  does he say that he sanctified himself?  A holy man has no need of sanctification. Only the unholy require it because sanctification is the work of the holy spirit to purify a person from sin.</p>
<p>Secondly, if Jesus was always holy, why did his ministry only start in his 30&#8242;s. What was he doing before then? Surely if he was always holy, then he would have had a life-long ministry. </p>
<p>Thirdly, Heb 7:6 &#8220;for it was fitting that we should have such a high-priest (Jesus), holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens. To be separated from sinners means that a man is set apart for holy use, or consecrated and this by sanctification. Sanctification is by the purification/forgiveness of sin.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Hobbins</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4795</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hobbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4795</guid>
		<description>Peter,

Your second reply persuadeth me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter,</p>
<p>Your second reply persuadeth me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4794</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 19:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4794</guid>
		<description>An alternative reply to John:

John, I did not mention ESV because I was following the advice of Ephesians 5:3-16, which can be summed up as &quot;don&#039;t even talk about any evil&quot;. These are things which &quot;must not even be named among you&quot; (v.3, RSV). So surely I was right not to refer to a version which contains half of the word &quot;evil&quot; in its very name! Note that I was consistent, not discriminatory, in avoiding quoting any version with the initial letter of &quot;evil&quot; in its name. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An alternative reply to John:</p>
<p>John, I did not mention ESV because I was following the advice of Ephesians 5:3-16, which can be summed up as &#8220;don&#8217;t even talk about any evil&#8221;. These are things which &#8220;must not even be named among you&#8221; (v.3, RSV). So surely I was right not to refer to a version which contains half of the word &#8220;evil&#8221; in its very name! Note that I was consistent, not discriminatory, in avoiding quoting any version with the initial letter of &#8220;evil&#8221; in its name. <img src='http://heissufficient.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4793</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4793</guid>
		<description>Yes, it was the period after &quot;faith&quot; that gave me pause with respect to the dashes. Plus having two consecutive thoughts begin, &quot;He did [this/it] to demonstrate his justice [...]&quot; You have to read it again just to make sure you weren&#039;t reading the same sentence twice...

The second dash was inherited from the NIV, where it wasn&#039;t so much a structural problem because of the &quot;faith in his blood&quot; wording.  It&#039;s almost like they revised 3:25a to get rid of &quot;through faith in his blood&quot; and didn&#039;t look at the rest of the passage, but I wouldn&#039;t assume that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it was the period after &#8220;faith&#8221; that gave me pause with respect to the dashes. Plus having two consecutive thoughts begin, &#8220;He did [this/it] to demonstrate his justice [...]&#8221; You have to read it again just to make sure you weren&#8217;t reading the same sentence twice&#8230;</p>
<p>The second dash was inherited from the NIV, where it wasn&#8217;t so much a structural problem because of the &#8220;faith in his blood&#8221; wording.  It&#8217;s almost like they revised 3:25a to get rid of &#8220;through faith in his blood&#8221; and didn&#8217;t look at the rest of the passage, but I wouldn&#8217;t assume that&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4792</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4792</guid>
		<description>John, I did not mention ESV because I did not consult it for my comment, which I made in a bit of a hurry, for the very simple reason that I don&#039;t own a copy. I consulted some print versions which I had in easy reach, plus HCSB which I also don&#039;t own but which was quoted in the post. I have a perfectly good RSV and see no reason to spend good money on a minor and not very good revision of it. Anyway, why pick on me? ElShaddai avoided quoting these verses in ESV, mentioning this version only to say that his church doesn&#039;t use it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I did not mention ESV because I did not consult it for my comment, which I made in a bit of a hurry, for the very simple reason that I don&#8217;t own a copy. I consulted some print versions which I had in easy reach, plus HCSB which I also don&#8217;t own but which was quoted in the post. I have a perfectly good RSV and see no reason to spend good money on a minor and not very good revision of it. Anyway, why pick on me? ElShaddai avoided quoting these verses in ESV, mentioning this version only to say that his church doesn&#8217;t use it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4791</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4791</guid>
		<description>I agree these dashes are confusing. But surely, since they are separated by a full stop (period), they should be considered as in separate sentences. The real problem is that the dash device is being overused. It really isn&#039;t appropriate in the second sentence, where a semicolon would be better, but it would be better still to restructure this part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree these dashes are confusing. But surely, since they are separated by a full stop (period), they should be considered as in separate sentences. The real problem is that the dash device is being overused. It really isn&#8217;t appropriate in the second sentence, where a semicolon would be better, but it would be better still to restructure this part.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Hobbins</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4790</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hobbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 16:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4790</guid>
		<description>Richard Hays, a great scholar by the way, holds to the subjective genitive point of view (&quot;faithfulness of Christ&quot;).  It is worth working through the arguments, though I remain convinced that the traditional view (objective genitive) is correct.

What is most fun about this exchange is Peter&#039;s approach to ESV.  He seems to treat it as Lord Voldemort is in the Harry Potter series: too dangerous to name.

I wonder if there are any study Bibles, besides NET, that present the options with a degree of equanimity in the notes.  Both NLTSB and ESVSB have no discussion of the question at Rom 3:22 and Gal 3:22. 

It would be nice if someone got around to publishing a study Bible that adequately introduces readers to questions of interpretation that have been and continue to be debated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Hays, a great scholar by the way, holds to the subjective genitive point of view (&#8220;faithfulness of Christ&#8221;).  It is worth working through the arguments, though I remain convinced that the traditional view (objective genitive) is correct.</p>
<p>What is most fun about this exchange is Peter&#8217;s approach to ESV.  He seems to treat it as Lord Voldemort is in the Harry Potter series: too dangerous to name.</p>
<p>I wonder if there are any study Bibles, besides NET, that present the options with a degree of equanimity in the notes.  Both NLTSB and ESVSB have no discussion of the question at Rom 3:22 and Gal 3:22. </p>
<p>It would be nice if someone got around to publishing a study Bible that adequately introduces readers to questions of interpretation that have been and continue to be debated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Clint Walker</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4789</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 15:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4789</guid>
		<description>This discussion reminds me of the book by Richard Hays in Galatians. Maybe you should check that out ElShaddai. It looked a little over my head at the moment, but I looked up book reviews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion reminds me of the book by Richard Hays in Galatians. Maybe you should check that out ElShaddai. It looked a little over my head at the moment, but I looked up book reviews.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4788</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 14:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4788</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be interested to get your thoughts, Clint. I&#039;ve only read Wright&#039;s &quot;Surprised by Hope&quot; and found much to agree with there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be interested to get your thoughts, Clint. I&#8217;ve only read Wright&#8217;s &#8220;Surprised by Hope&#8221; and found much to agree with there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ElShaddai Edwards</title>
		<link>http://heissufficient.com/2009/05/18/the-wright-way-of-reading-along-with-the-niv/#comment-4787</link>
		<dc:creator>ElShaddai Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 14:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heissufficient.com/?p=2044#comment-4787</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarifications, John and Peter - without that context, it&#039;s pretty easy to read the NIV/HCSB&#039;s righteousness in the 1 Peter verse along the lines of the musketeers&#039; motto: &quot;all for one, one for all&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarifications, John and Peter &#8211; without that context, it&#8217;s pretty easy to read the NIV/HCSB&#8217;s righteousness in the 1 Peter verse along the lines of the musketeers&#8217; motto: &#8220;all for one, one for all&#8221;&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

